21 August 2024
HAB: What is your academic background and what are your current research interests? What are you working on at the moment?
Josefa: I’m currently doing a research master’s in Leiden and I’m writing my thesis on race-making in the Atlantic world in the early modern period. I did my bachelor’s degree in Hamburg. The subject of my bachelor’s thesis was the scientification of racism.
HAB: What motivated you to take part in the summer course at Herzog August Bibliothek on ‘Early Modern Slavery’?
Josefa: I had never attended a summer course before, so I was curious. But what really grabbed me was the theme of the course, which coincides exactly with my research interests. When I looked to see who would be giving papers at the course and discovered names like Rebekka von Mallinckrodt’s, whose work was what inspired me to study this subject in the first place, I applied immediately.
HAB: Can you describe a typical day at the summer course?
Josefa: I would get up and get ready, then hurry over to breakfast to make myself a couple of sandwiches before heading straight over to the seminar. I usually had lunch in the Anna-Vorwerk-Haus and enjoyed the sun in the garden. The garden was so lovely that I usually stayed there to work. In the evenings we often cooked together as a group and rounded off the day with a glass of wine. Almost like being on holiday.
HAB: Which of the Herzog August Bibliothek’s resources did you use?
Josefa: I actually found two books on the history of terminology that aren’t available in Leiden. I read excerpts from them and scanned them. Otherwise, I often used the seminar room to work when I wanted to sit at a proper desk.
HAB: Which session was most memorable for you, and why?
Josefa: Definitely the one led by Chloe Ireton. I had already familiarised myself with her work in advance and was very excited to meet her in person that day. After more than a week of summer school, I was flagging a bit, but Chloe’s way of leading the sessions and the discussions she initiated reinvigorated me. After the first day I was raring to go again and could have stayed for another two weeks.
HAB: Were there subjects or viewpoints that were particularly controversial and sparked heated discussions? If so, how were these controversies handled?
Josefa: As a group we were generally pretty much in agreement, so there was actually little that was controversial. What I remember are perhaps the discussions that concerned differences between disciplines, such as legal history versus social or cultural history. And there were questions we kept returning to: What is slavery? What is freedom? How can they be defined?
HAB: What new insights or perspectives did you come away with?
Josefa: In order to do research on slavery, it first needs to be defined, which isn’t all that easy actually. It’s important to precisely examine what people’s perceptions of it are and how it is understood at the local level, since the boundaries between slavery and other forms of dependence, such as bondage, aren’t always clear. Slavery, as researchers understand it, tends to be a European construct, which can’t be transferred to every society in the world, especially in comparative research.
One quotation from our discussion has lodged in my memory: ‘Slavery is bondage, but not all bondage is slavery.’
HAB: Was there a particular moment or discussion that you found especially illuminating or challenging?
Josefa: I found José Lingna Nafafé’s presentation on his book and his conclusion about the ‘lawfulness of slavery in West Africa’ especially interesting. I haven’t concerned myself much with West African history and I found his line of argument together with Toby Green’s work particularly helpful in setting European historiography straight.
HAB: Of course, it’s not possible to summarise everything you learned in a two-week course. But in terms of content, is there something that you’d especially like to highlight?
Josefa: I actually kept a written record of what came out of the different sessions, in order to have a brief summary of the course. These are the four headings:
- Definition of Slavery: Its lawfulness/(il)legality, difference to serfdom.
- The Myth of Free Soil: Question existing historiographies and paradigms that have been established.
- Universality of Slavery: Its problematic to compare or transfer the European concept of slavery globally.
- Archives and Methodology: Going beyond numbers (Jennifer L. Morgan), critical fabulation (Saidiya Hartmann) to go beyond the limits of archives and white historiography.
HAB: How do you plan to integrate the knowledge and experience you gained during the course in your own research and teaching?
Josefa: I found Chloe Ireton’s section on new and alternative methods especially exciting and would like to include them in my research in order to get the most out of the archive and the sources.
HAB: Have you developed ideas for projects that you would like to pursue after the course? Did new research questions come up during the discussions?
Josefa: I didn’t develop any new projects but instead concentrated on the ones I’m currently engaged in. Rebekka von Mallinckrodt’s section on Slavery in the Old Reich was particularly helpful for my MA, since I want to examine race-making in the German-speaking world by looking at the history of two racist terms. Both her insights and the literature she gave us were perfect for this work.
The research that Chloe Ireton presented to us is important for me in terms of my doctoral dissertation (which I’m currently preparing my application for). I’m planning to do research into the so-called Black Hessians, a group of Black Loyalists who came to the Old Reich with the Hessian troops they had fought beside in the American War of Independence. Since sources on this subject are very scant, I’m considering using Saidiya Hartmann’s method of ‘critical fabulation’.
HAB: Did you forge contacts during the course that could be important for your academic career?
Josefa: I certainly did! First and foremost with the other participants! I’m still in touch with some of them and we’re planning to meet again soon. Then, of course, there was the contact with the lecturers. I had already mailed Rebekka von Mallinckrodt and Chloe Ireton, but to actually meet them in person and to have the opportunity to learn from them was another highlight. I also had a chance to speak to Francisco Bethencourt’s wife, Ulinka Rublack, and to ask her some questions about the PhD programme at Cambridge. She then introduced me to two PhD students. As well as acquiring new knowledge and some useful leads for my research, the main thing for me was the opportunity to expand my academic network, for which I’m very grateful.
HAB: What advice would you have for other PhD students doing research on slavery and its consequences?
Josefa: You should have applied for the summer course!
Title image: Group photo of the participants and lecturers at the summer course in the garden of the Anna-Vorwerk-Haus
PURL: http://diglib.hab.de/?link=192
The interview was conducted by
